VICKIE MAYS: Hi. First, Hydeia, I want to tell you I am only four years older than you. And I remember seeing you on TV, and I found you really inspiring. I'm so excited to meet you, so thank you very much. Second, I was wondering, does anyone in here know of any groups that are doing work with lesbian population, specifically around STI prevention and HIV prevention and transmission, and specifically lesbian populations of color? Thank you.

YVONNE DAVIS: I know for example for a Navajo culture, the lesbian population is not identified as being identified as lesbian. We consider them to be masculine feminine women, and we address them in that perspective. So on a cultural perspective, we look at where they're standing. You know, in terms of sexual identity, that's separate from gender identity. And so we always made sure that we kept that separate. So with American Indians, like for Navajo, and I'm only speaking for Navajos, we focus in our inventions for gender-specific interventions when we're dealing with lesbians, and that could be masculine lesbians or masculine femininity or even feminine femininity. So it varies.

BARBARA ARANDA-NARANJO: Many of the Ryan White funded clinics, depending on the need. For example, Whitten Walker has a lesbian clinic. But if you go on, as Hydeia has said, on the web on AIDS, you can put in "care for lesbians" or different groups and get things up. But the different clinics that are funded by Ryan White, depending on the need of that community, have actual clinics for the population. And there is researchers that are looking at that population.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I can tell you there are several programs that are in the San Francisco area. I think it's called the Martin Lyons clinic that's there. Fenway has a clinic that's in Boston. The University of Illinois in Champagne Habana has a research project. And you know, what I would suggest is that you look in whatever region you're in at your gay and lesbian services centers, because they will be able to direct you to programs, research, and practitioners.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I want to thank the panel for their fabulous presentations and very heartfelt and their information. My concern is what feels like to me the pink elephant in the room, which is this administration's unwillingness or blindness around HIV prevention. And I had to sit and listen to someone talk on Thursday about ABC. You know, women, especially women of color who are getting infected, you know, they're married. And so abstinence isn't an option, and they're faithful. The problem is that they're not being seen as at risk. And I have a concern that we have a panel about HIV and prevention, and we don't have—and this is a government conference, and we don't have a government official here to kind of hear that, hear our concerns about that, because I know I'm not the only woman in the room, and that also that not only are we talking about these methods of prevention or this prevention strategy in this country, but we're exporting it over to Africa like we think we know, not only what we think happened or what we think worked in Uganda. And it's not entirely clear to me that that's true.

And we have also decided in a continent that's huge that what happened in one small country is going to work for everywhere else in Africa. The same things don't work in, you know, Brooklyn and Kansas City. I don't know why we think that the things that are going to work—that perhaps worked in Uganda are also going to work in South Africa, in Kenya, in Nigeria and Morocco, all of those places. So I just felt like it was important to say that at this point in the conference.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you for your comment. We're going to actually have a response, but could you just say what ABC is, because I realize not everybody in the room is an HIV—is in the field of HIV.

FRANCES ASHE-GOINS: Yeah, it's abstinence, be faithful, and if you can't do that, use condoms. I don't think they put in "but if you can't do that" part. I'm Frances Ashe-Goins, the conference coordinator. I've been working on HIV/AIDS since 1984, so I've been through many administrations in various concerns and various highlighted areas regarding HIV/AIDS prevention, care, and treatment. And let me assure you that this is one aspect, and I think that as you go through the workshops today, you'll see that the workshops are concentrating on HIV prevention, but HIV care and HIV research. And even though that might be one aspect, rest assured that the entire federal government, even though those might be the highlighted areas, that we are addressing all aspects of HIV/AIDS care for all people. And especially in the Office of Women's Health, we have programs that address women and HIV/AIDS, but this is also in SAMSA, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Association; also in HRSA, which has a huge working group on women. And Barbara used to be there before she left.

BARBARA ARANDA-NARANJO: Sabrina's there.

FRANCES ASHE-GOINS: Sabrina's there. There's Sabrina. And who am I missing? CDC has efforts around women and HIV, FDA. So we're still doing the comprehensive approach to HIV/AIDS across the lifespan, across genders, and across various communities within the nation. And I'm speaking as a Fed that's been there for a long time. And Sandra Estepa, and also in the regents.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Inaudible).

VICKIE MAYS: Thank you. What we're going to try and do is we are at a point where we know we're running over time, but we're going to take time. I've been given permission. Somebody looked at me like, "You're doing that to Fran?" No, I got permission. But what I want is to make sure all the questions get answered. So if you really do your questions so the panelists can actually have some time to comment, that would be great. Let's go to this mic.

BARBARA SULLIVAN: Hi, I'm Barbara Sullivan from Staten Island, New York, and thank you, panel. Like everyone's saying, you guys were wonderful, and I loved the fact that it addressed the spectrum of from youth to not youth.

VICKIE MAYS: Very politically good.

BARBARA SULLIVAN: My question, I was piqued by a statement that, Yvonne Davis, that you made about condoms being a form of genocide. And I wonder if you could, you know, expand on that a little and if maybe the other panelists had something to say. It was kind of disturbing to me, coming from an agency that uses the approach of condoms as a big prevention method.

YVONNE DAVIS: When I went into the communities of the Pueblo villages when I was working with All Indian Pueblo Council as a health educator, one of the areas that I wanted to look at was how we could decrease the rate of teenage pregnancy because the rates out there are, like, 99, 98 percent for teenage pregnancies, and then also the rate of Chlamydia, which is very, very high as well. And so I wanted to do was to implement some type of intervention because I noticed there was not interventions addressing directly the issue. There was no intervention in terms of breaking that causal pathway of infection, no barriers that were being introduced, let alone abstinence teaching, education. That was not being implemented as well. And so I needed to do something that was radical. I needed to say, "Okay, we need to stop this infection."

So that's when I introduced. I went to the council. I went to the governor's council and sat in front of the 19 Pueblo governors, all men. Keep in mind that's a patrilineal society, not matrilineal, so it's kind of like head-on from the very beginning. So coming in there and telling them, "Okay, we're going to start using condoms," that's when they told us. And they came and they talked in their language. I couldn't understand it, but I could hear that there was some uproar because you could hear mumbling and murmuring. And then, finally, a spokesperson came up and we said, "We can't accept that. This is a form of genocide. You're following the way of how people are trying to get rid of our people, because if you do that, we're not going to be able to have babies, and that's what we're trying to do." The community that I was in had a population of about 3500 people at the time. One of the governors had told me, he said, "My tribe is, like, 300 people. Right now, we have 400 full bloods. We cannot afford to not, you know, to implement condoms." And I could understand that, so I had to take a different approach. And so, okay, I'm saying that we're not introducing genocide, but we are introducing a public health issue that needs to be addressed, and that is teenage pregnancy. They don't consider that to be a public health issue. So these are some of the cultural perspectives that we have to look at, we have to weave around.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'd just like to add again, what we talk about here is context and cultural beliefs. And I think we have it in all of our communities, in the Hispanic community, in African-American, in all communities, certain beliefs about—I can hear many times in the lower Rio Grande valley where I worked for many years that, you know, this disease must have been brought by the government because it's hitting all the lower socioeconomic. And so you still have these prevailing beliefs, and I think that's why it's important for we as community people to work with our people because they are not going to listen to anybody that's not walking in those neighborhoods to say, "Okay, I kind of hear what you're saying, but let me explain and who you could protect yourselves." And so we have to engage, I think, in what Hydeia said, conversations.

And for many of you who have been out with our communities, we are not going to hear conversations from people that are not in our communities. We distrust. We live in a very distrustful time. But I think context and cultural beliefs need to be understood first as we go forth in our information; otherwise, the very thing we want to do, information, is the barrier. And even if you're the same color and you're talking not the talk of community, the more they don't want to see you, the more they distrust. So I think that the Native American is—they are giving you one view of what—and I can see where they see condoms as genocide since you try to eradicate that whole community. So I think it's another example of how we need to be out there to explain and have those conversations.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you. Mic over there.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Good morning, and thank you to the panel. This question is directed toward the first speaker. I'm sorry, I forget her name, the journalist.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Jane.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Jane.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm sorry. Do you think our media outlets are doing a disservice in our efforts to get the message out about STIs and things like that? For example, when I worked in a community and I was talking to the young guys, it's sort of like they're like, remember with gonorrhea, they're like, "Oh, you get two shots. You're okay." And sort of now the message is, like, with Magic Johnson, which is wonderful, he's healthy, he's strong and everything like that. People are saying to me, "Oh, you know, it's not too bad. You know, I don't have to worry about it. If I can, I just take a couple of pills." And then, there are messages from the pharmaceutical companies, like with that medicine for herpes, I think, is like, you know, you can run, you can climb, you can leap, you can do whatever. Just take the medicine, without giving the counterpart about prevention or education. So I was just wondering what are your viewpoints, and open it to the general audience. Thank you.

JANE FOWLER: The media could do more. I hope I understood your question. I have 69-year-old ears, and I'm wearing hearing aids. So the media could do more. As far as the issue of HIV and older women, which is my primary interest, I have found that the media has done some stories to bring this issue to the attention of people, but not as far as ever showing, or maybe just on one occasion in the state of Florida is an older face ever shown on a prevention poster. Does that answer your question?

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Hydeia had something.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That was helpful to know, but it was more geared towards sort of as far as advertising. Maybe I should say what pharmaceutical companies and the messages that they're giving about medication to cure things and not so much information about prevention and education and testing and the importance of knowing your status around that arena. Am I clear? Maybe I'm not making myself clear.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, you're clear.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I think you're clear. Hydeia actually has a comment.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You're clear.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's not just pharmaceutical companies. There's this apathy now. HIV isn't on the front burner any longer.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Hydeia?

HYDEIA BROADBENT: Okay. And you have to understand, too, that the pharmaceuticals job is to sell their product. It's not to prevent. It's not prevention or education. That's one thing that you should understand is they want to sell their product, and they know that people are infected. Therefore, they are trying to make their product look as good as cheesecake, you know. And that's another thing you said is a lot of people saying, "Oh, let me just—I can just take the medicine and I'll be okay." That's in all age ranges. Everybody feels that. They see Magic Johnson; they think, "Oh, I can take the medicine and I'll be okay," not knowing how much that medicine is cost them per week and not knowing that not all medicine works for everyone. I've been through the whole list of medications, and there's only a few, you know. So we have to stress how important it is to not become infected.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you very much, and I think that's what I was trying to lean towards is that I know they need to sell. Everything is about money. They need to sell it, but then we need something on this side to counterbalance that because it's hard to go against the media when I'm in the street, canvassing the street and trying to have a conversation. If I can have something, someone coming along then, like maybe Magic Johnson is doing his job with as far as, you know, when he first came out with testing. But lately, I've been hearing about the medication, which is wonderful. Do your medicine, eat right, work out, and things like that. But I still didn't hear use condoms, get tested, know your status, talk to your partner. So I'm just saying maybe that we can get some campaigns going or challenge pharmaceuticals, also. Yes, you want to sell your product, but what are you doing over here to get the word about this or at least help fund something or put money towards something to counteract because you are making money. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I would encourage you to send that letter to the pharmaceuticals because they're making money off our people because they need the drugs. It's to say we want to also see that. Now, you see that happen in alcohol and tobacco, you know. Alcohol companies began to work with the community, so I would challenge you to say exactly what you said. And you could even videotape yourself, because I think you would be real strong to say, "I'm an outreach worker here. We're paying for your medications, but we'd like to see this, and I want a response." And so I challenge you to send it to the drug companies.

Vickie Mays: Okay. We've got two questions left. We've got two minutes left. So I'm going to ask you to keep it real both in terms of your questions and answers just so both people can get them in because Fran has extended our time, so we want to make sure that we respect that. Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay, my comments are going to be very brief.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: In the mic. In the mic.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can't hear you.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The CDC does have programs that address the issues of the lesbian community and HIV. And the other thing I just wanted to clarify is that currently, all states now have HIV reporting. It's not just the 25.

VICKIE MAYS: Thank you. And it is apt; we have Dr. Mitchell, last words.

DR. MITCHELL: Actually, your problem with genocide is not just to the Native Americans. When I was at Harlem Hospital, I ran one of the largest prenatal clinics for substance abuse in pregnant women in New York City and one of the largest in the country. And in order to apply for this grant from CDC, I had to change the term "birth control" because basically, when you say "birth control" in the United States, people are talking about genocide. And I used a couple of references from people who had done research in the African-American community. This tells you my age. I'm not in my 60s yet, but I'm getting there. It was during the time of the Black Power, women's lib and all of that. But in the African-American community, it was the men who felt that birth control was a way of genocide. So this is not something new. This is something that, again, looks at communities that say, "You don't want us to have children. You don't want us to have Medicaid, babies, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." So it's not just one or two ethnicities. It really cuts across the board.

VICKIE MAYS: Thank you. One of the things I'd like to do is thank our panelists, because I think that the way we've started this day off I hope is the way this, you know, the rest of the day and tomorrow will go, and that is with the powerful information that you've been given. Now, somebody brought up the issue about the administration. One of the things you can do if you want to make sure that the voices are strong is you fill out your evaluation so that when we have people who are speaking about things other than ABC and there's any questions that come up, we have very strong evaluation. So it's very important for you to fill the evaluations out and turn them in. Don't fill them out and leave them. Turn them in to Rhetta. Rhetta, raise your hand. She has help. Raise your hand. They're in the back, so please turn those in. So let us give a round of applause to our panelists. Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of the day.