GREG REDDING: Thank you, Wendy. For those of you that don't know me, I'm Greg Redding. I'm the director of the Pediatric Pulmonary Center here at the University of Washington, and for those who do know me, you know I'm not shy. One of the things that we're going to do now in this transition. Here's an agent for change in action here as I'm going to--instead of having you listen to the wonderful speakers and both inspirational and educational you've heard all morning, I'm going to start to have you participate and I'm not going to do that forcefully, but I want you to think about the reason why you're here for this conference in the first place, which is really to think about leadership training. So we've heard a lot about leadership and we're going to transition this now to some degree to think about training, which is something we all do--grapple with leadership--and I think want to learn better how to do it, particularly as we deal with future generations and people who are now in training that will become the leaders of the future. And with that in mind I'm going to ask any of you--I don't want you to be shy either--you have the luxury of some exclusively provocative and I think terribly effective speakers--Dom, come on up--who have thought about these topics. This is your chance to ask them whatever you like regarding leadership, and I would urge you to think about it in terms of leadership training. Does anyone want to start this process?  Jeff?

WENDY MOURADIAN: Can you please stand up and identify your program?

JEFF MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah, I'm Jeff McLaughlin. I'm the (inaudible) in Washington. I, Tracy particularly, used the words that struck me as  (inaudible) the importance of maintaining a balance between boldness and realism. And as I thought that with the rest of you it seems to me there's two, at least two places we listened that's internally for your team and externally what's going on. And I'd be interested in people that argue a little bit on how you manage that balance?  We see leaders that are, kind of, way out in front they (inaudible)how to look for the troops and nobody's there, and then there's the other people who are not leading and then there are successful people. How do you maintain that balance?

GREG REDDING: Feel free to jump in panel.

TRACY E. GARLAND: I got ignored so I'll start but I don't consider myself the last word on this. In my case, my observation is that just as human beings we ere or are biased much more to focus on realism than boldness, and so for example in the times when I have planning sessions with my staff or my board and we take comfort in the progress that we've made pursuant to the strategies we've adopted, I basically stop the conversation and say, you know, is this really bold enough? What would something really big look like?  What would taking what we've just talked about to the next level look like?  And when I ask that question, I don't know the answer.

BRUDER STAPLETON: Jeff, I think one of the most important things in terms of balancing those questions is to listen to the group. Not very many people want to be as Dom said second best, so being bold is important. Having audacious goals is an important aspect of moving an organization and a group forward. And then to prevent being at the top of the hill and no one behind you means having a group develop the mission and vision and have the sense that they're leading the organization and you're facilitating and making that possible. I think that when you get in trouble and you find that no one's behind you and the arrows are coming, is when you didn't ask and listen to what the group--how they anticipated getting there.

GREG REDDING: I'll just add to the notion of transparency because I think that's the link that bonds those two ends of that continuum, if it is a continuum that one day somebody's out there listening to the external--the customer perhaps--the external customers and the other end is talking to people here but not being out there. So I think it's a matter of doing it together and creating transparency at ever point in the process. At the beginning when you're establishing the vision, everybody buys in. It's a great transparency as you're executing and then during the measurement phase, you work together toward agreeing on how we're going to measure it and then showing everybody the results of that measurement. So I think transparency is a bond that kind of ties all that together and it will automatically--if it's done well--bring the external focus and the internal focus together. That's theoretical. It's hard to achieve but that's--I think--theoretical.

MAXINE HAYES: And I certainly agree with all of those comments. Something else that I would add to it, though, is reading the context for where you would like to go very well, and reading it in a strategic way so that the boldness is balanced with reality. A lot of times there is hesitancy in the group because people really have not been convinced that the timing is right or the environment is correct for the action. And I think having someone in the group that can really address that so that people can feel more cohesive in the action that's going to take place would be very important, too.

DOMINICK DEPAOLA: I wanted to comment. I didn't talk about this too much, but planning is a really important part of the whole dimension of leadership and follower-ship et cetera and one of the ways you balance these seemingly disparate, you know, major goals with practical ones is you have to have a really good understanding of how you want to measure success. And along the way, you have to have report cards to make it clear that we're making progress or we're not making progress and sometimes you then have to go backwards and say, you know, "Gee, we haven't made the kind of progress here we thought we could make. Maybe we need to be more practical about this, but let's not forget where we're going because let's not take our eyes off the big ball," but on occasion, you have to become a little more practical in order to get to the big picture.

GREG REDDING: Thank you. Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (inaudible) Since we're talking about leadership training, I'm actually really interested in the panel telling us what the elements of their leadership training were. Were they courses in a business school where they mentroship were they reading from Barnes & Noble what do you attribute some of your reflective qualities as a leader to?

MAXINE HAYES: Well, I certainly can tell you that mine was trial by fires. Experience was the greatest book that I ever learned from and I'm glad that I can say I learned, because some people don't learn from their mistakes and don't learn from their experience. But I think much of what I have evolved to become has been based, really, on trials by fire. I'll never forget Vince Hutchens, who many of you know in this room. Vince is the reason why I'm in state government right now. I was actually recruited to come to work for the state of Washington and I called Vince up and I said, "What do you know about MCH in the state of Washington?"  And he said, "It's the worst MCH program in the country."  And back then that was true, you know, that was in 1988, it was. It was the worst one in the country and he said, "If you take that job," you know, "I'll help you."  And it was establishing legitimacy by getting a review panel--an external review panel--to come to Washington to tell us everything that I knew was wrong already, but it gave some legitimacy for being a change agent and doing something about the bad stuff, and now we're one of the best. But I think that, you know, had I not had that experience, I wouldn't of even had an opportunity to learn how do you really make change and that's what that was about then.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Other panelists?

DOMINICK DEPAOLA: I'll make a couple of comments. Mine was totally by luck. I've actually been one of those people who've been in the right place at the right time from time to time and that actually is very good. You need to exercise that if you can do that, and I'll give you two perfect examples. When I was graduating dental school, I actually was offered a residency in Connecticut, and I was all excited. I was getting married in a couple of months and this sounded great and my wife were getting ready to move to Connecticut, but I never got an official letter back from the director. And I kept calling the director and I said, "You know, I'm not sure what's going on."  He wouldn't answer the phone, so then I called him as a patient and he answered the phone, and he said, "Gee, I'm sorry. I had to give that away to someone else."  And it turned out it was one of his relatives, so I was really distraught.

I went back to New York University Dental School and went to the dean's office, and he introduced me to a periodontist named Sheldon Ross, and Sheldon said, "I have an internship that you can fill. It's necrotic disease hospital," which I had no interest in at the time, and a difficult place to be I should tell you, you know. So, I go to the necrotic disease hospital and my first couple of days there I'm, kind of, panicked. I'm not in the right place, et cetera. And then I went in--I met this guy named Oliver Sacs. Oliver Sacs is the guy who was the medical director at Beth Abraham Hospital part of Montifury, in the Bronx, and I did all of the oral health exams on every one of those post encephalitic Parkinson's patients that he was treating with El Dopa which has now become famous in awakenings. And he was an amazing inspirational guy. He had an incredible vision and a big, larger than life guy. He's probably--by the way, if you see him now, he's about 150 pounds smaller than he was when I was there. He used to tell me that whenever he ate he had to take a shower when he was done. He had a beard that came down to here, so interesting character. And he and another person, Charles Messelof, who was the director of the home medical residency program there, they pushed me to go to academics. They said, you know, "You really should think about academics as a career," I said, "Well, you know," they said, "You need a union card, though."  I said, "What do you mean a union card?"  They pushed me to get a PhD. Just obviously, something I was not crazy about doing, especially since they wanted me to do it in biochemistry, and I said, you know, "The reason I didn't want to do that is because I almost failed biochemistry. It's probably not a good fit."  But that's a really important thing that happened to me that would have never happened if I was in a different circumstance.

And my final comment and I'll stop talking is that when I was at--when I moved from Fairleigh Dickerson University, okay?  Also known in those days as Fairly Ridiculous University, we moved to the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio. I actually did what people called a non-lateral move. I went from being an assistant dean to a professor, because I really didn't want to go and become an academic administrator. I wanted to continue to do some things that I spent a lot of time studying. And one month after I got there, the dean died.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Any questions, yes?

WENDY HELLERSTEAD: My name is Wendy Hellerstead. I'm from the School of Public Health at the University of Minnesota and we try to teach leadership also to our graduate students. And as you know in public health we have so many controversial issues with which we deal, and oftentimes, those are sort of personalized and moralized in the outside community without much clarification. What I try to teach our students is to advocate evidence based polices and programs. I'm wondering if you have strategies for helping the public and particularly with this legislative session in Minnesota, politicians by evidence. To understand evidence. It's an easy question, though.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It is.

MAXINE HAYES: No, it's not an easy question, but I think the ends to the medicines, the future of the public's health does have some clues. And one of them is the chapter on communications. You know we're scientists by and large and one of the things that I have learned that we need help with is translating what it is we know in language that people can really relate to and really want to do something about. Now, the statistics that you shared in terms of America's, you know, research on America, some of those poles are really disconnected with some of our policies, because we haven't learned how to really connect them. And I think one of the messages for those individuals who train leaders for the future is to focus on this. I mean we got to focus on this and I think that using people who have this as their profession, using them more. In our health department just a few years ago, we brought some media specialists on and we've been a different health department ever since. And so I think we have to think, you know, again boundary spanning in our thinking about communications. It may seem very simple, but it's really the truth and it's been a barrier for us.

GREG REDDING: If I could add to that I think the communication theme is critical. So show you some examples from my industry experience of coming in there as a, sort of, clinical scientific person heading up a clinical operation in these two different companies where I worked. I often had to communicate to these non-scientific people, our area being the only, sort of, scientific clinical area in this large organization basically sales and marketing and everything that supports it. So, what I learned was that the strongest leaders that I was surrounded by ones who admire and still learn from today, are the ones who took the time to listen to everything I was telling them on the clinical side. It was challenging for me to try to explain the reason for this clinical trial and the nuances of the design of the study and why we had to spend this much money on the organization to conduct the study. And the ones, the leaders, the boss I had who really understood that. They could sit down as a sales person by training and articulate the detailed nuances of the clinical study to an investor or to somebody else and understand why we had to do it. And I used to sit there in awe, impressed, this guy, well he understands this better than I do. I mean he's giving me insight into why we're doing this. So to me that's a real attribute in leadership is somebody who can take a subject that they're not an expert in, because we're only an expert in a couple things, so I think the need to create leaders is one that instills an ability to communicate and articulate complex subjects as was mentioned--articulate them in simple terms but very accurately. It was a challenge to make it simple and accurate.

BRUDER STAPLETON: I think another way of saying that in a, sort of, a functional way is that data is a tool that provides you with power. As a leader, you're constantly negotiating in all different arenas, and if you are negotiating from a position of beliefs or your traditional views or what you think is right in your way of thinking, you're lost. And so as you go to the government or you go to your faculty or you go to your dean or you go to any arena, if you deal in a transparent way with data, you can come to a mutual decision and something that's fair. And so I think that the idea of evidence based guiding governmental decisions is not different than other negotiating situation that leaders have.

DOMINICK DEPAOLA: One other comment if I could and that is that remember the Southwest Airlines saga of making sure you communicate sometimes in unconventional ways, but you have to keep it simple. I mean I'm a head of a research institution now primarily. I have 41 principle investigators, none of whom can actually speak English, okay?  So we had to hire some media relation's people who have translated what they do into a kind of public relations and media and marketing material that have now gotten worldwide recognition, you know?  Vaccines for cavities, I mean--this is not rocket science, this is, like, real bioengineering a tooth. Who wouldn't like to have a tooth replaced with a, you know, a bioengineered one rather than an implant. I mean but you have to communicate in a very simple way for people to understand that. I was in the state of Texas--I was at a time when they wanted to close one of the three schools in the state of Texas--dental schools--the Texas Dental Association did. They didn't care which one, just as long as one closed. There are too many dentists, people weren't busy enough, et cetera, and the power there became very evident there because the dental schools use data to argue with the legislators, the TDA gives the motion and they got destroyed. It's really important but we were able to communicate in an effective way. You can't just throw data at people so it's really important to distill it into, you know, "Liar, liar, pants on fire."

TRACY GARLAND: Your question's gotten lots of response. My understanding based on the work that we've done that gets boiled down to a simple phrase, "frame trumps facts" so it really doesn't matter if you have all the evidence to support your policy. If the way that your audience is already understanding the issue is in consistent with your evidence, it will not persuade so we do a lot of work. And in our work, understanding how people think about and talk about children's oral health, for example, and we do try to shift that frame and reframe it and have been successful, but it's only by honoring how people already think about it to begin with.

MAXINE HAYES: And the final thing is that we don't have to be the ones carrying the message. See, that's something that I think we really have to admit and be okay with. Sometimes it's someone else that is the messenger. They can take our science. We don't have to be the ones seeing it. So it's one of those, you know, being willing to give up some territory basically.

GREG REDDING: In the way back.

ROSIE: Hi. My name is Rosie. I'm with the program at the University of Texas. Dr. Hayes, would you please talk about self awareness and spirituality as backbones of the (inaudible). I wonder if you and the other panel members could address that issue between academic training programs and how do we foster that in trainees.

MAXINE HAYES: One of the things that I have become very aware and I really urge you to look at some of Robert Greenleaf's work about the servant leader. This work was well evolved back in the '70's so it's been a long time though some of those concepts, but I think what we've had is a full circle understanding that there are qualities of leaders that inspire and also that are grounded on some very core principle's of service. There's more to just serving just to serve, I mean there's this compassion and this caring about others that's so fundamental to ones spirit that it's carried over into their style of leadership. I mean that's basically what Greenleaf's beliefs were and I think it was merited, and some companies are now recognizing if they can show their employees that they truly care. It's not, sort of, like a makeup superficial thing. I mean this is really caring for employees in a way that people really feel that they can use their talents in environments that won't punish them for being creative and won't punish them or pull them in for wanting to be more creative and innovative but that's what these fundamental principles were. And I'd encourage you to really look at some of Greenleaf's work. He has a website that's--I'm trying to think of the name of it. I think it's servantleadership.org. So anyway, I hope I answered that question.

GREG REDDING: I think this speaks to the point that was mentioned and Dom mentioned it in his talk before the nature versus nurture and this might be more in the realm in my view of this election process for the future leaders. The spirituality in particular self-awareness. I think we can do exercises to create, to elicit that, to open it up, but that's an area that in my personal experience that is much easier to select those who are more able to do that or more comfortable with that than to try to be a clinical psychologist for three years. I don't know. Bruder?

BRUDER STAPLETON: I think it's incredibly important in today's world particularly with the generation of gen-Xers that we try to help individuals learn how the process of personal renewal and spirituality is part of that. And it's something that I give a talk at our intern retreat on at the end after they've reflected on professional values. And I think we don't spend enough time helping people learn how to step away to develop what their core values are to get them through difficult times to develop friendships, to be physically strong. Things that allow us to go through the tough times and the good times and enjoy life, and I think that we don't pay near enough attention to that and that's something we can inculcate in all of our programs is helping people learn the process of self renewal that deals with this.

WENDY MOURADIAN: Yeah, I really appreciate that you asked this question. I think that as I reviewed the literature on leadership and maybe Virginia Reed will comment on this this afternoon when she looks at her review of literature on leadership. There's really very little about this written, and so that one of the things that we did was build into 12 groups or it's going to be a lot actually groups today--is this notion of what's the internal process of becoming a leader all about. And I recently was in a session that looked a negotiation and conflict resolution style as an important leadership skill, and it was amazing to me how much that really reflects back to my own personal values and styles and way of relating to other people, and how much though that provoked. So I'm not entirely--I will agree with Joel that I think there's some nurture versus nature issue, but this audience, I think, most of you have a deep passion for maternal and child health or you would not be here, so you have some connection already to your inner motivation, but what we don't do is allow for development and maintenance of that and sustenance of it. I remained when I was intern, I had my first month a patient--a baby, an infant I had been working with--die and I found it a very difficult experience. I went down. I was invited to the post mortem as the house officers always are to understand the process better, and I walked into the room and saw this baby strung up on the appropriate equipment, and I turned around and I said, "Excuse me. I have to leave the room. I just need to reflect on this minute."  And one of my mentors at the time, Ron, I won't use his last name, said to me, "Don't worry, hon, you'll get over it."  And I said, "I hope I never do."  Because what I came here with is going to be the most important thing that I take away. So think we do not, in fact, allow those qualities that people do have with them, and I believe that this kind of an audience especially and the trainees that you're working with have that depth and capacity, but we don't, in fact, look at ways to nurture and encourage and yet I agree. I'm thrilled to know it's part of the intern retreat now, but it's very, very important.

MAXINE HAYES: I have on other comment to make about that, too. You know if every effective leader was honest, they would tell you that whatever they are responsible for has nothing to do about themselves. It's all about relationships. It truly is all about relationships. Whatever our outcomes, our goals, our successes is our relationships. And embodied in the concept of relationship, is a fundamental issue about how it is we carry other people's spirits. So, this is not about religion, as much as it is about understanding how we carry another person's spirit. That's about honoring one another's gifts and honoring the fact that we all have very specific purposes and when we do that, we have entered the realm of spirituality in a very deep and profound way. When we can honor other people and honor them by being respectful, honor them by understanding what it is their gifts are that really can be put together and leaders know how to put together gifts. I mean we have so many people who are walking around defeated because they have lost their way. They don't know who they are, and many times leaders have to pick people up and help them find themselves again, and that's spiritually in a very deep and profound lasting way.

GREG REDDING: Thank you. Jim?

JIM HEYGOOD: I'm Jim Heygood from the PBC Birmingham, Alabama. The name of our discipline "maternal and child health" is really focused on our consumers If we really are a service and empowerment discipline and I wondered if any of you could address, I think at one point Dr. DePaola said something about engaging the consumer in advocacy role. How do you inculcate leadership in the families and the young people that we deal with and how do you incorporate them into leadership training?  How do you incorporate those voices of individuals and groups that we serve in leadership?  I mean,--

DOMINICK DEPAOLA: Since you took my name in vain I'll try to respond. It's a very difficult question. You know, it goes back to the issues we've been talking about. Now, a number of people have talked about is you really have to have this, sort of, passion and compassion in dealing with the constituents that are you dealing with in the community. And if they really buy into the shared vision, it doesn't matter what it is. You could actually nurture them along the way and actually put them in positions from time to time to actually be the change ninja's that we talked about before. That gives them fantastic empowerment, particularly it gives them legitimacy in their own right and it creates the next generation of people who can go out and be, sort of, the individuals who can make some of these changes that you can't make. So I think the consumer, you know, as a group is different than the consumers as an individual. So, you have to kind of view the context of where you are and try to move people individually, but always keep your eye on the big ball.

LOUISE: Louise, when you shoot from the land in Hawaii and I really appreciate everyone's comments and stories and as we work with our trainees over a year or two year period, we're (inaudible) want to have life long learner, and so if in our leadership program we're looking for, kind of, a life long leadership. Can you share perhaps that inspiration?  I heard family they said, family mentors because the tools of leadership, I think, we're being, you know, often times giving, you know, how to build a team. But there's something that must carry you the long haul and I was just wondering if one could share, if you had that, what keeps that, sort of, leadership sparkled that what we could do in our training programs--incorporate in our training programs in this short one or two year period so they would become life long leaders.

GREG REDDING: Anybody want to take that one on?

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's a great question.

DOMINICK DEPAOLA: Well I think it's an impossible task. I tell you the truth. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but I'm sure people have met success with that but that is a very difficult thing to do on the training side. Because, you know, I think one of the questions I posed to ponder was whether or not, you know, you think people are born leaders and what leadership comes to them, and it's clearly a combination. I mean some people really have an innate, sort of, ability to mobilize resources, people, ideas. They are creative, you know, I mean you know people like that. Then there are others who you can put in that role for their whole life and they will never arise above where they are, which may be okay because you need people at every level doing these things. So I think it's a very difficult job. What you have to do is be a little selective, though, in my view in terms of identifying people who could be leaders, but you could put them all in the role. You can give them framework and then you have to see what happens and measure their progress along the way and sometimes, you have to give them guidance in terms of trying to ensure that at least they have the tools for success. Ultimately, they have to get out there and make something happen, so it's not an easy--it's a great question but a tough one to deal with I think.

BRUDER STAPLETON: Greg, I think that it's a little different if you're talking about individuals that are in your department for which you have an opportunity on a regular basis to get feedback and to hear their dreams and try to understand those people that really are seeking leadership and how to help develop those skills. The trainees, on the other hand, sometimes it's more difficult to know but I think that there are many ways to create networks and over time to take--I think one of our responsibilities is when we go to our national meetings to take--get our trainings together, introduce them to other people, find the same contact, find out what their goals are and how they're progressing and when there are opportunities to include them in organizations or in studies, or just being there. And it becomes obvious that there are people who want to expand their contribution and their influence, more than just their individual activities and when you identify those people, try and promote them. And I think that one of our responsibilities is providing networks for our trainees after they leave our organization.

WENDY MOURADIAN: I think that it really goes back to--that the spark for lifelong leadership and lifelong learning and keep sustaining it. It goes back to that internal moral mandate and the passion for the MCH issues, and I think when trainees don't have that you probably don't belong in the field, because it is part of the commitment. Now you don't--all of our trainees will not do it in the same way and as Don pointed out, there's role for leadership on all levels, so not all people have to be in the top sector--top, if you will, echelons--doing this. But I think it relates to those core values and I think we have to model them. We have to articulate them, not be afraid to talk about them, and show people what drives us. It's a Bruder said, you know, "I have a mission to improve the healthy children," and that has to be the culture that we create in our training programs around us that this is fundamentally something we take risks doing, that is hard to do, and it's worth doing again and again even when we fail because it's the right thing to do.

GREG REDDING: Joel?

JOEL BERG: I just wanted to echo Bruder's comments because I didn't--during my talk before when he asked us to reflect on what was most important to us in leadership development, and I would have to say clearly as Bruder just said it is the right thing to do. The thing that framed my desire for the career that I've chosen was when I was in dental school, I worked part time in the research institute at this University of Iowa we only have a famous research institute. And the famous people--at least I thought they were famous and they are--took me to meetings where I met other famous people who were experts in doing very significant work, and that networking--meeting these people--taught me the skills of how to very early on that no matter what you do, there's always somebody who knows more about it than you do. And to become facile, that skill set with, you know, interacting, connecting, networking, getting information and having the passion to do that and reaching out to connect was clearly the most important thing to me. So I think the more we can introduce our trainees to experts, the more we can show them off and talk about who they are and who they might connect with in the future and make those introductions that is incredibly valuable, so I feel that strongly.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Maxine?

MAXINE HAYES: I think the global nature of maternal child health issues is what keeps me a life long learner, and I think that if we can think as maternal child health leaders about that global context, it just takes us farther than we can ever imagine. We cannot be satisfied to just think about MCH within the borders of our states and our small communities because our issues are global. I think about the fact that we have people from all over the world in our communities right now and if I were to just be limited in thinking about how I'm going to keep them healthy within the limited framework that I've established in my own mind, I would be out of touch with reality. So I think the global nature of our issues and the connections that we make with anybody in the world that care about our population is what will keep us life long learners and very humble, too, by the way because the richest countries are not always the ones that have the best modalities of how to do this. We can learn from some of the poorest countries as well--some of our colleagues there.

GREG REDDING: Thank you. Wendy, you have the last question.

WENDY MOURADIAN: Thank you. We've heard several times the importance of picking people up from failure, and I want to ask the panelists if they would care to share with us any of their experiences of failure that taught them things. It's certainly been true for me and I know my chair knows about this--oh, it's all right--that sometimes that the times of greatest failure were when the greatest opportunities opened up for me, but it's something that happens to us and you have to be able to learn from it and even go into something very new in which you can be successful in new ways in which you didn't think you could be. But I wonder if the panelists would share any experience of failure and how they learned from it.

GREG REDDING: Tracy, you talked about blind allies. I couldn't resist the pirouette.

TRACY E. GARLAND: I was just thinking I would take a pass on this one. I will be happy to say that one of my reason for transitioning out of the public sector was because I reached a point in my career when my style or whatever was not deemed to be what was desired in terms of higher executive positions and so I thought, "Okay, time to do something different."

GREG REDDING: Bruder?

BRUDER STAPLETON: Well, like president Bush, you know, you, kind of, caught me off guard here. I guess one of the things I was interested in membrane transport of uric acid is my research focus. And I had an experience where I ended up choosing to go to my first position because of a developmental renal-physiologist who when I arrived announced that he was leaving to go to the University of Texas South Western and so I was all of a sudden now in a new environment with no mentor and no one else on campus that was working in my area. So, I was able to do some productive work, but, sort of, began looking at other research questions and moved from--and had some individuals who could support that. And so taking that, my career changed dramatically because I moved for more of a basic physiology research program to become more of a clinically focused investigator and built on that information I had before. And ultimately then I started the CRC and was able to get NIH grants in my clinical research, and so I guess that it was very disappointing because my ability to get independent funding in my area that I really love wasn't possible and partly was my inexperience and partly was that there was no environment. But you know, I step back and looked at what else was available and got interested and other people stepped up to the plate who were interested in my ideas and so that was one example of a failure for me.

GREG REDDING: Joel?

JOEL BERG: Humans are basically conflict diverse. I think all of us have some level of conflict diversion and my greatest failures probably reside in that category in general. Our biggest challenge as managers, leaders, and managers is managing people. I think the most important resource--I asked Jack Welch once many times and he always has the same answer, "What's the biggest failure of CEO's?"  He always says, "Not dealing with ineffective employees."  Now, in his case he fired 10% of the people every year. Okay?  He was effective, I guess, by that measure. But more commonly it means recognizing that, sort of, burning situation where somebody's not functioning in the way they should. It doesn't mean that they should be terminated, it means they should be matched up with whatever their contribution and fit the needs of the vision of the organizations and by not continually monitoring that and correcting it. That's the biggest failure and I've made a lot of those failures, you know, besides specific examples, but I think a lot of them reside in that category but you learn from each one and try to learn earlier and keep focusing on the vision because that's the most important thing. And then the last point on that is that transparency becomes important because it's become easier for me, you know, and I've managed a lot of people in a lot of different environments and had--in some cases--terminate people in industry where it's a little bit different scenario. But if you're transparent about what the mission and vision is and what you're trying to accomplish, it becomes clear to that individual as well as you present the problem of why there is this problem in the first place. So, transparency is key. If everything's a secret and suddenly somebody's stricken with some kind of new information they weren't aware of, that's a much more difficult situation, so the conflict diversion and transparency are important to correct it with transparency.

GREG REDDING: I think on that note, I'm going to conclude the panel portion of this. I want to think the panelists. It's been an extraordinary morning. Thank you.

WENDY MOURADIAN: Thank you. Great. So, we're going to go to our workout groups very shortly. It's been quite a work out this morning and it started on Friday. Okay. Again, thank you to the speakers and moderators and panelist. This was a really, I think, just--hopefully you feel as excited as I do about this with all of the ideas and the thought we've been able to give to leadership. Now we want to focus down, and we want to try and divide up our leadership skills. We over divided as opposed to under divided so that we could come up with as many different parts of leadership as we could and in the end, no doubt, we'll do some joining back together again. But we do have 11 groups. I want to tell you that we've combined the process of management skills, working with facts policies and organizations together because our facilitators were unable to be here for one of those groups. But all the other groups will be the same and we have a task, which hopefully you've had some opportunity to look at because we sent work in advance to you on this. And our first workgroup session addresses what are the skills, domains, and competencies of leadership to which we would train?  We decided to dispense with the educational subtleties of what's a skill, what's a competency, and now we're even beginning to ask more about capacity rather than even competency just to free people up to be able to say anything at all in the groups that they think is an important aspect of leadership. And as we share our personal experiences, we've asked each one of you to think of a sometime when you had to mount leadership and use the particular domain that you've been assigned to. We tried.

We hope we've got almost all of you in one of the three categories that you requested, then we'll ask you is that crosscutting skill. The group will need to do some work with the help of a facilitator to condense from the discussion that you're all leaders. What are some of the core ones?  What are the similarities across your shared experiences?  Are they crosscutting skills?  We don't want to have skills and competencies that only work for, you know, PPC's or only work for LENS. We're here to think about crosscutting skills, and then to ask ourselves, "Is this important for future leaders?"  We think it's important now. Can we project ourselves a little?  And then the second half of the assignment is what's the training needed?  We got a little bit into this in the very last question. What kind of experiences, modeling, have you put people in these positions and identifying the curricular or training experiences. Starting later, this afternoon and tomorrow we'll look at how do you measure that process? 

And finally, these domains were just created by the organizers in the planning committee and they're not sacrosanct. If you think this is not a domain or you think it needs to be defined differently or you think it should be combined with something else, then please tell us that. We'll have an hour for feedback afterwards in which we'll review the findings. In addition to facilitators, there are two facilitators. One of whom has been identified with content expertise in the area, but really, that's not necessary. We want you all to bring your experiences. But we ask you to identify a recorder and inside your packets are white sheets. One for work group one today, one for work group session two tomorrow. Part of those white sheets include a note-taking table. We would ask the recorders to please take notes in the appropriate session, you know, a few words. What was the shared experience and what was the competency that the individual participant suggested, and then how do you train to these competencies?  Clear as mud, I'm sure. Joel.

JOEL BERG: Eight is combined with nine. So does that stay in the room here where eight was or go to nine.

WENDY MOURADIAN: We're going to talk in a minute about the rooms so just give me a minute. I'm going to ask each of the leaders of the groups to please stand up as I go through them so you can see how these individuals are. The rooms are all either on this floor or the mezzanine up above. Again, there is a map for communication it's Colleen Huebner and Jean Emmons, so if you're in communication.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Your group number is on your badge. If you're wondering which group you've been assigned to there's a roster in your packet and it's also indicated on your badge.

WENDY MOURADIAN: Okay, your group number is on your badge in case you forgot. Second, building constituencies, Wendy Mouradian and Dom DePaola. Cultural competency, Noel Chavez--are you here?  There she is--and Sally Stewart. Thank you. Stay up long enough so people can see you. Negotiations and conflict resolution, Penny Leggett and Rebecca Slayton. Thank you. Number six, evidence base and trans lighting science to practice, Jeff Mclaughlin--oh, I'll go, okay thanks--and Peter Blasgow, you're sharp. Mentoring Louise Awaishi. I think it's Jane Reese. There she is. Policy and advocacy skills, Lou Margoles and who is your co-facilitator?  Bruce Shapiro. Great. Thank you. So now combining management skills and working with facts, policies and organizations Joel Berg and Erica Ocaro--thank you--from the business school joining us. Thank you. That important question of the internal process of becoming a leader, Angela Rosenberg and Gail Keetkeffer. Thank you.

 Critical thinking and problem solving, Greg Redding and Kathleen Rounds. Thank you. Ethics and professionalism, David Nash, who is tonight's keynote speaker, and Lynn Robbins. Lynn was here earlier. There she is. Thank you. Okay. Two of these groups--we actually originally had three groups meeting in this room, but now two groups who meet in this room, which is very convenient so it's good that we got rid of one, and you will go to the--and that was right. The working with policies and organizations, so instead you will--the eight and nine will go together to eights room, so I don't know what room that is. I don't have my--is that here too, then?  Okay. Region's, okay, so, great. Here?  Region's is upstairs. The next step is there is lunch, but as you're--it's a pickup ad go through to your room. This looks very chaotic to me. How can we do this? Maybe we start with half of the room. After all, half need a bathroom break probably and then come back in. And then I'd like to ask those individuals who have been moved from the working with polices and organization groups to come up briefly and talk to me because it maybe--that's a very--it's a large group and you had a burning passion somewhere else, we'll let you go somewhere else. So, Doug you can go to mentoring, wherever you are, Doug Shod our medical educator with a passion for mentoring. Okay. So-

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Do you want to say anything about the special keynote panelists who haven't been assigned (inaudible)?

WENDY MOURADIAN: We are leaving it open for the panelists who can stay with us in our, you know, other keynote speakers and guests are welcome to join anyone of these groups. They're fairly small except for this combined group. We know you're all leaders and you'll be able to bring us your best thoughts after the time is over. We will reconvene here at--what is it 2:15 or 2:00?  Somebody who has a pink--2:00?  I think it's 2:15.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 2:15

WENDY MOURADIAN: 2:15, so that should give you enough time to do some good work. Thank you all. We'll see you at 2:15.